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Alph-Art: Does Tintin die?

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Harrock n roll
Moderator
#31 · Posted: 4 Mar 2013 18:44
Gayboy:
Remis

mct16:
Remis (Herge)

Before we go any further I would like to point out that his name is Remi, without an 's' on the end.

It would be remiss of me not to mention it ;-)
jock123
Moderator
#32 · Posted: 4 Mar 2013 21:30 · Edited by: jock123
Harrock n roll:
It would be remiss of me not to mention it ;-)

By Georges, you’re a humorous cove! Live long and Prosper…
;-)

PS
mct16:
(Herge)

Oh, and of course it’s Hergé, rather than “Herge”… :-)
SakuraT5
Member
#33 · Posted: 5 Mar 2013 11:03
Gayboy: Wake up and smell the coffee darling! Please check your spelling,grammatical and info related mistakes. By the way, please keep certain views and ideas to yourself. It would be a great help to all of us!
mct16
Member
#34 · Posted: 5 Mar 2013 12:47
SakuraT5
SakuraT5:
please keep certain views and ideas to yourself.

With all due respect, we are all entitled to our views and ideas and passing them on to others. That is the idea of forums where we can debate these issues. I don't agree with many of Gayboy's thoughts but I am prepared to discuss them even if we will simply have to agree to disagree. It is called democracy.

Gayboy believes that Herge - sorry, I mean, Hergé - was intending to let Tintin die at about the same time as he was. I do not agree with the view that "Alph-Art" was intended as some kind of Shakespearean tragedy but I am willing to discuss the possibilities.
Gayboy
Member
#35 · Posted: 5 Mar 2013 16:11 · Edited by: Gayboy
SakuraT5
I'm really disappointed by your comment as I have had great discussion here, there is one solution. Just choose to not respond to it or read it. I'm sure that your spelling and grammar isn't exactly picture perfect either. If you notice my information I was not sure about I said 'I think'. So before you cast stones make sure someone else can't cast stones at you for similar reasons or other imperfections. There should be a comma after grammatical if I'm not mistaken by the way.

(I apologise to Jock123 and Harrock if my comments are out of line-- I just want to take this moment to say I appreciate both of your objective thoughts. Harrock, you have a great sense of humor as jock pointed out! ;))


@mct16

Now before we derail this thread any further and upset the forces that be, I just wanted to thank you for your objectable responses whether you agree or not. I actually don't believe Remi was going to kill or let Tintin live... because I simply don't know. I was merely playing devil's advocate and also opening the possibility of death which affects us all on a very personal level. A lot could be said but I think I would be taking the thread in a different direction. I can definitely see yours, Jocks, and Harrock's points. I was just underlining there is always that fear of death whether likely or not.
Balthazar
Moderator
#36 · Posted: 5 Mar 2013 22:55 · Edited by: Balthazar
Re SakuraT5's post:
I could be wrong, but actually I read his comment as being an ironic or satirical mimicking of what he saw as an underhand attempt at censorship of Gayboy's views and ideas through nitpicking on the part of moderators.

But even it's that the case, SakuraT5, your remarks would be as unwarranted as if they were meant literally, since a) that sort of irony is liable to be misinterpreted, and b) nobody was actually trying to censor or discourage Gayboy's thoughts at all.

As far as I can see, all participants were enjoying the debate (a debate I've been looking forward to joining in if I ever get a free moment!) Just because the members who happen to be moderators were disagreeing with the points that Gayboy was testing (kind of the point of a debate!) or usefully correcting the odd factual point, doesn't mean that anyone was being less than amicable or less than welcoming of anyone's ideas. There was simply no need for the sort of tone you were adopting, SakuraT5, whoever you were meaning to criticise or defend.
Gayboy
Member
#37 · Posted: 6 Mar 2013 05:41 · Edited by: Gayboy
Balthazar
I'm not here to attack anyone or do I want to get personal attacks from other members, I'm just here because I too am a fan of the series. The only difference is I have a different vision than most which places me in the minority. So far everyone has been nice to me up to now. I see the moderators on here do their jobs well, so I won't speak anymore on the issue.

Sometimes in order to get a good discussion, someone has to play devil's advocate. I personally wouldn't want to see Tintin lose his life, but I could respect it if that was the original author's will.
As you have read Jock and Harrock have made good points why Remi would not; however, I believe I made some fairly good counter points that it could have very well been Tintin's final adventure.
FormulaFourteen
Member
#38 · Posted: 22 Jun 2013 10:05
jock123:
Nothing that is in the published notes, the work in progress or anything else which has come down to us from Hergé shows that he had any intention of killing off Tintin in this book

Specific examples of this are found in the 'rediscovered pages' released in the newest Egmont edition. Page 57 documents Hergé's thought process as he tried to work out an escape for Tintin! Will he hide in the ceiling? A hole in the wall? Wear through his bonds? Have Snowy chew through them? Hergé considered these options, and who knows how many more!

This strongly indicates that Hergé had no intention of displaying Tintin's final grim resting place, the life-size polyurethane-cast sculpture, in his studios along with Sir Frances Haddock, the Carreidas 160 jet, and the moon rocket, to remember his late hero by. (A very long sentence!)

Gayboy:
Mr.Remi could have been in a lot of pain in the days before he passed away, so I could see a despondent Mr. Remis writing such a book where Tintin has his final adventure.

As Jock123 so aptly points out, Hergé was apparently in relatively good spirits before his death.

jock123:
It's an elementary mistake to make, but Hergé wasn't writing the book in the last days of his life - he hadn't done any work on it (as far as can be told) for a few years before his death

jock123:
There is nothing to suggest that he was despondent or down-cast in his work toward the end

However, even if he was courting the blue devils during the writing of Alph-Art, or before his death, there is no indication that this would have produced a more tragic tale. Tintin in Tibet was the brainchild of one of Hergé's more notable periods of depression. It is very interesting to appreciate how deeply the story dives into the bleakness of depression, loss, pain, but ends on the triumphant chords of friendship, love, hope. Who's to say that a Hergé in pain would have put an end to his Tintin?
Gayboy
Member
#39 · Posted: 26 Jun 2013 01:55 · Edited by: Gayboy
FormulaFourteen
Ok as the devil's advocate I've got to continue this.

As Jock said, Herge was kind of thumbing his nose at Tintin near the end; and, Herge did say that he didn't want any more stories written about Tintin after he passed away. With that being said, Tintin by de-facto dies with Herge.

Whether or not there may be evidence to support the argument of life for Tintin, the fact we can no longer have any more canon stories that can be written also could give support to the final stand of the reporter.

By having Tintin's death, albeit a bit harsh, there are themes to be learned from it.

- No one lives forever.
- No one is invincible.
- Sooner or later your luck will run out.
- Curiousity killed the cat.
- etc., etc., etc...

Although it may not be popular, it's life, and life goes on. Another Tintin will take his place, even if it is a character popular in our modern culture.

Herge's depression during Tintin in Tibet was because of his love affair with Fanny, and he was faced with the decision to leave his wife. Although the book does not reflect any of that particular type of depression, I get the impression that he also missed the friendship of his real friend Tchang as well.
jock123
Moderator
#40 · Posted: 28 Jun 2013 21:31
Gayboy:
As Jock said, Herge was kind of thumbing his nose at Tintin near the end

I didn't mean to give that impression; apologies if I did!
I said I had to consider that the frame of Tintin being marched off to possible (although unlikely) doom may have been done in jest; if so it was aimed at himself or perhaps Bob de Moor.
However I also pointed out that this wasn't in all likelihood drawn "near the end", as he'd not worked on the book for some considerable time when he died (although he may have found it expedient to give the impression that he'd got an album under way to placate the public...).
He also had been working enthusiastically (and happily it would seem) on the metro fresco designs, which celebrate his work with a happy and "alive" Tintin.
Gayboy:
I get the impression that he also missed the friendship of his real friend Tchang

That's a harder conundrum to crack, I think. He met with Tchang before he died, and although by all accounts the meeting was cordial enough, it seems to have been not quite the encounter he'd hoped for. Perhaps the passing years made Hergé invest far more in the days of old than had ever actually existed...?

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