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Flight 714: Tupolev Tu-134 vs the Carreidas 160

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snafu
Member
#1 · Posted: 11 Jul 2005 23:13 · Edited by: snafu
I had just had some thoughts after looking at the photos of the Tupolev Tu-134 on airliners.net (the workhorse of Russian aviation), and saw that they are very similar to the Carreidas 160. Is it possible that the Tu-134 inspired Herge?
yamilah
Member
#2 · Posted: 12 Jul 2005 20:13 · Edited by: yamilah
snafu
Is it possible that the Tu-134 inspired Herge?

I don't think so, snafu. Here are useful links:
http://modelbox.free.fr/dossiers/tintin/Tintin_P/page5.html

and http://membres.lycos.fr/wings2/tintin/714/714.htm

Hope you get along a bit with French...
snafu
Member
#3 · Posted: 12 Jul 2005 22:13
Although I don't know French very well, is it correct to say that it was the Dassault 140 (don't really follow business jets) that inspired Herge? I mean that both the Carreidas 160 and the Tu-134 share:

-Sharp nose
-Total 8 wheels on the rear landing gear (total 4 wheels per set). The wheels are also stored in similar structures while the plane is in flight.
-T-shaped tail with a sharp spine-like structure on its top

How about Dassault craft?
yamilah
Member
#4 · Posted: 13 Jul 2005 00:27 · Edited by: yamilah
snafu
the Dassault 140

The Dassault site doesn't mention that model... Please see http://www.dassault-aviation.com/passion/fr/dassault_a_a_z/avions/index.cfm?ta=4

Despite a few similarities with the Tu-134, doesn't the Carreidas 160 seem shorter, more pointed, and above all unrealistic, with its strange central reactor?

please see http://www.free-tintin.net/details8.htm#vol
snafu
Member
#5 · Posted: 13 Jul 2005 14:01 · Edited by: snafu
I don't know French (all my vocabulary comes from Spanish vocabulary, which doesn't work that well)...

As for the length of the airplane, the number of windows the Tu-134 has on each side makes it look very short when in fact the Russian airliner is as long as a DC-9. The same could be said about the Carreidas 160, which also has relatively few windows. In both cases, these windows appear to be very spread out from each other.

Yes, The Carreidas 160 is more pointed, but it would be unrealistic to describe the Tu-134's nose as being blunt.

Where was there a reference to the centra reactor in the actual story itself (I see its being mentioned in the free-tintin.net site, but not in the actual "Flight 714")?

It looks like the Dassault Falcon 30 is the closest relative to the Carreidas 160 (most pointed one), but I don't think that it is particulary close (too short).
jock123
Moderator
#6 · Posted: 13 Jul 2005 23:49 · Edited by: jock123
I thought it was Roger Leloup who designed the Carreidas ’plane, rather than Hergé?

Anyway, while this is an interesting discussion, surely we have to accept that the ’plane in the book is never going to be identified to a single source model? In order to have it appear as an original creation, it will probably have features which are found on different machines, and also those which are made up.

Wouldn’t it be better to list reasonable sources for individual items (the nose of a Falcon 30, the wheels of a Tu-134 etc.), than trying to pin it to one model?
Richard
UK Correspondent
#7 · Posted: 14 Jul 2005 00:59 · Edited by: Moderator
Yes, Leloup was responsible for the design of the plane. As you say, Jock, it's most likely that the design is a pastiche of various sources put together with Leloup's technical know-how.

According to the book Tintin : Grand voyageur du siècle, the plane in existence today that is most similar to the Carreidas 160 is the Falcon 200. A bit of research suggests that the '200' was a modification of the Falcon 20, whose prototype was built in 1962. The '200' had a few changes made to it, but since it was unveiled in 1979 that puts it out of the timeframe. It's very possible that the '20' inspired Leloup in the creation of Carreidas' jet.

What we know for certain is that Laszlo Carreidas was based on Marcel Dassault, the head of the company responsible for the Falcon, amongst others. There's a short biography of him here, but if I can draw attention to this passage :
"Besides his work in aviation, newspapers and politics, Dassault was keen on architecture, cinema, banking and the stock market."

But to get back on topic, if we're going to pull the Carreidas 160 apart to identify source elements, I think it'd be best to use the technical drawing by Leloup which features in Tintin & the World of Hergé in addition to the album, since it gives us a nice cutaway of key parts.

*******
Note from Jock123: Richard - I took the liberty of changing the links for the ’plane pics above, because the host site wasn’t allowing the link to be used directly to the photo (it did work if you copied the url and pasted it into a new browser window); however, by tracking down the photos used on airliners.com, I saw that the banner above the picture contained a url to use as a link, so I have sorted that here.

-Jock123
jock123
Moderator
#8 · Posted: 14 Jul 2005 07:29 · Edited by: jock123
Thanks for that, Richard. For the “pointy nose”, this Dassault HU-25C Guardian, which is also designated the 20G is getting there (although I admit that the extreme pointiness may be partly down to the lens of the camera used).

Here is the 1963 prototype of the 20, in a French museum, which makes it the right sort of age to have been seen by Leloup.

It is nice to wonder if it was perhaps a photo of this prototype, and the fact that it is designated the Mystere, which caught Hergé’s eye in the first place…
Danagasta
Member
#9 · Posted: 14 Jul 2005 17:02
Leloup could have compiled features of planes as well, and considering his extensive knowledge of aircraft, he could have made it appear seamless as well.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was what he did.

By the way, if you guys need some French translations, you're more than welcome to ask me if you like. ^_^ It's fun

Courtney
snafu
Member
#10 · Posted: 15 Jul 2005 22:03
Had Leloup seen a Tu-134 before? I think should have done this earlier, but here are some examples of various Tu-134 aircraft:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/869072/M/

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/772366/M/

View of wing and landing gear compartment: definitely similar to the Carreidas 160 or C-160 :D
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/679371/M/

Side view is always good:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/878934/M/

Looks like the Tu-134 is a little on the long and tall side, though...

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