Tintin Forums

Overall, I think the English tranlations are fine, except in a few instances.

The first is the annoying time incoherencies brought about from referencing to things that are supposed to be in the future but because of the publication dates are in the past publication-date-wise: Snowy saying he'd 'settle for Marlinspike' in 'Cigars' a prime example (I'm surprised Tintin didn't mention 'the Captain' in this adventure).

The other really annoying thing is their insistance on translating not only words but locations. Therefore, Marlinspike is no longer in Belgium but in England. What is the point of this? It (and the thing mentioned in the paragraph above) only confuse young or unfamiliar readers while at the same time insults their intelligence.

I mean, give people more credit than that. Surely they can understand the concept of a 'prequel'. That is, that one story published after another does not necessarily mean that it 'hapenned' after. And making Marlinspike be in England suggests that readers won't be able to cope with the fact that Tintin is not from an English-speaking country yet speaks 'English' in normal, everyday conversation; that they won't realise that he is not 'actually' speaking English but rather it is being 'translated' for us.

I have absolutely no qualms in translating names of people and places, as long as they are not actually moved from one country to the next. Therefore 'Moulinsart' to 'Marlinspike' is ok because it is just a translation, in the same way as 'Oui' to 'Yes' is. But transferring it to England causes all sorts of geographical incoherencies.

Snowy saying he'd 'settle for Marlinspike' in 'Cigars' a prime example ...

I'm sure this has been mentioned elsewhere on the forums, but I think Snowy could have been referring to the town of Marlinspike, rather than Marlinspike Hall itself.

... only confuse young or unfamiliar readers while at the same time insults their intelligence.

Well, Michael Turner and Leslie Lonsdale-Cooper 'anglisied' the books to make them more suitable for an english-speaking audience of the day. I'm sure, were the books to have surfaced in English more recently, the French place names etc. would have perhaps been kept in some instances.

Marlinspike is no longer in Belgium but in England. What is the point of this?

I agree with this. Although on the whole setting the adventures in England doesn't alter the course of things too much there are a few small things that still get to me when reading, the main one being the cars all driving on the wrong side of the road!

ClaroQuerido
I mean, give people more credit than that.

Perhaps you should give more credit to the translators? They did know what they were doing.

Many of these issues have already been covered before, but I’d put to you the following.

In the first place, anachronistic references were introduced into the series by Hergé himself in the original versions, so it is scarcely fair to single out the U.K. translators for that. Just for example, the redrawn Black Island clearly places the adventure in 1960’s Britain, but he then reverts back to the thirties for his next adventure…

Then remember that Methuen were taking a gamble on putting out these books at all, as previous attempts at English language versions had not been successful. There was no comparable series of hard-back comic-strip books available in English - not even home-grown “quality” product such as Dan Dare was given that treatment - so it was a huge gamble for any publisher.

There was nothing to say that their attempt at launching series wouldn’t just hit the floor with a thud, so as much was done to make the venture as successful as possible. You’re talking as if success was guaranteed, and the changes were willful, which it certainly wasn’t, and they weren’t.

It also thought that there would be more immediate appeal to British readers if the books were relocated to England; once that was established that was the setting, and it was easier to keep up the fiction, than have to revise them at a later date. I’d rather put up with a few minor problems, and have the books available in English, than for the series to have died the death for the sake of fidelity.

I would agree with ClaroQuerido that the relocation of Moulinsart to England and the nationality of Haddock changed to british is disturbing. I beg to differ that the books would have died had the original belgian/french status been kept. It is such a good series of books I can't really believe it wouldn't have succeded anyway.

In my heart Tintin is always set in Belgium with the exception of travels of course and that in my opinion Moulinsart is located in France close to the belgian border, since is was a gift from the french king (mind you, not the english king).

It always make me cringe when readers of the english versions claim that Moulinsart is in England, Haddock is british, Jolyon Wagg would be welsh or something. Maybe I'm being overtly strict but it seems sort of blasphemious to me.

This is not made as point of disrespect to Michael Turner and Leslie Lonsdale-Cooper which I'm sure made an excellent translation otherwise. I haven't read the english translation only about them, since I'm from Sweden and the swedish editions always kept the series in Belgium (and perhaps France for Moulinsart).

What I gathered is most of the translations around the world true to the francophone editions in placing the series in Belgium.

labrador road 26
I beg to differ that the books would have died had the original belgian/french status been kept. It is such a good series of books I can't really believe it wouldn't have succeded anyway.
But it had already been unsuccessful in English, so your confidence is slightly misplaced. Methuen were taking a gamble on a series which had failed once before, and the changes were used to maximise the chance of success.

in my opinion Moulinsart is located in France close to the belgian border
It’s funny that Marlinspike being in England makes you cringe, and disturbs you, yet you quite willingly transport Moulinsart into a foreign country for your own reasons. There is no doubt that - according to the French books - Moulinsart is in Belgium… ;-)

I would just bear in mind that story of Hergé getting the letter from the little Congolese boy who put himself forward for the part of Tintin, should Hergé need a real-life model: I think that people should be allowed to identify with the books in the way that suits them best - if you want Moulinsart in France, fine. If Marlinspike appears to be in England, equally fine…

As to Haddock being English (or British) - the debate about that arises from a remark by Hergé himself, not from the translations. MT&LL-C make no indication of, or claims for, Haddock’s nationality, so don’t put it at their door. See this thread for more on the subject of the “sad fish”.

in my opinion Moulinsart is located in France close to the Belgian border
It’s funny that Marlinspike being in England makes you cringe, and disturbs you, yet you quite willingly transport Moulinsart into a foreign country for your own reasons. There is no doubt that - according to the French books - Moulinsart is in Belgium… ;-)

Not for my own reasons. It is based on the fact that François Haddoque was a member of the French marine, which points to that he was French. Next is that the French king Louis XIV gave Moulinsart to Haddoque who was a chevalier (part of the lower French nobility), even more to indicate that all things concerning this is solely connected to France. Wouldn't it be strange for Louis XIV to give away houses in another country (Belgium) in which he is not a king?

My question is where in the francophone editions it is stated that Moulinsart is in Belgium and not in France? We all know that the house was based on Cheverny in France, and the name from Sart-Moulin in Belgium, but that can hardly be enough to place the castle in Belgium when everything else points it to be in France.

My view of this topic is that Moulinsart/Marlinspike is in... Tintinland! For an English reader they can, if they wish, believe it is in the English countryside, for a European mainland reader it can be in France, Belgium, Germany etc.. I'm an English reader, and I actually think of it being in Belgium when I read, just because that is how the series exists for me. It doesn't matter really.

I don't think Hergé necessarily had a geographical location in mind. He knew he had an international audience, and kept things vague to a certain extent. The English translations did try and make it more English - I quite like that, but then I grew up with it, so am biased (but not militant about it). The whole transportation thing is not totally successful, and as can be seen by quite a proportion of messages on the forum, it does cause confusion in the Tintinverse.

labrador road 26 My question is where in the francophone editions it is stated that Moulinsart is in Belgium and not in France?

I don’t believe it is stated anywhere in the series but the local Moulinsart police wear Belgian police uniforms in The Calculus Affair and The Castafiore Emerald. Fairly conclusive I would say – in as much as Moulinsart doesn’t really exist technically ;-)

I respect the fact that you’re a purist labrador road 26, but think you’re making too much of the Anglicization. Many other translations have chosen to change names of characters and places to fit their respective languages. For example, Moulinsart becomes Mühlenhof in German, Maesymwstwr in Welsh, and of course the Thompsons have been given a variety of different names. Many publishers have felt the need to make changes, I don’t see why it's “disturbing” that the English language editions have done the same. I'd argue that once the names have been changed it only naturally follows that the country should. It would be pretty odd if Maesymwstwr was anywhere but Wales.

Michael Turner has said in an interview on this site that the name Haddock was the springboard for the Anglicization, something Hergé was all for. Indeed it is very likely Hergé encouraged this as translations prior to the Methuen one had changed names and locales; Dutch, Portuguese, and also the earlier English and German translations made by Casterman had name changes to match their languages. I personally hold that it all goes toward making the Tintinverse even more varied and interesting :-)

Thank you very much. I wasn't aware that the police uniforms were Belgian, have to look closer in to that.

Maybe I am sort of purist, maybe even more than Hergé was. I will try to loosen up a bit as Tybaltstone is absolutely right about it being in Tintinland, and whatever works is fine.

One thing strikes me as odd though. It seems that Hergé was quite willing to have the names and sometimes even places translated/changed and even redraw some things for different publishers. Like the omissions of black people in the USA. But nowdays Moulinsart SA seems very strict about what could be done with everything related to Tintin, and that they would never accept such major changes as placing Moulinsart in Wales or what have you.

But I guess they are just being extremely purists and making sure nothing is changed that doesn't fit the rest. Which is fine by me, they call the shots, and why shouldn't they?