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Tintin in Scots & Gaelic

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Richard
UK Correspondent
#1 · Posted: 29 Jun 2013 21:56
In September, Dalen (the publishers responsible for the current Welsh Tintin books) will publish The Black Island in two new translations, Gaelic - An t-Eilean Dubh - & Scots - The Derk Isle. More information available on the publisher's web page.
jock123
Moderator
#2 · Posted: 30 Jun 2013 15:20
I'll be ineterested to see what the Scots one is like - I'm slightly worried by the use of "derk", as I'd have thought "daurk" or even "dork" (although that might look odd and confusing to modern English speakers!) would have been closer to the sound I'm familiar with...

However it should be interesting!

I don't have the Gaelic, so can't comment on that!
Harrock n roll
Moderator
#3 · Posted: 30 Jun 2013 19:30
Thanks for the info Richard. I'd quite like to get a copy of the Scots Black Island, great idea to do it.

jock123:
I'm slightly worried by the use of "derk", as I'd have thought "daurk" or even "dork" (although that might look odd and confusing to modern English speakers!) would have been closer to the sound I'm familiar with...

I know there are different Scots dialects, but am I right in assuming that there isn't an 'official' written version of the language?
jock123
Moderator
#4 · Posted: 30 Jun 2013 20:58 · Edited by: jock123
Harrock n roll:
I right in assuming that there isn't an 'official' written version of the language?

There isn't even a concensus that it's a language - some would class it as a dialect of English. But broadly speaking, no, it doesn't have a standard written form; although it has a large body of literary works going back to mediaeval times, it is highly inconsistent.
Even allowing for that, I'm not sure whereabouts in Scotland people say "derk" more than "daurk"...
But I'm from the North East, and a completely different dialect is spoken there - Doric; if you've seen the cartoon Brave, the character that speaks in a dialect that the other Scots can't understand, is speaking Doric...!
Harrock n roll
Moderator
#5 · Posted: 30 Jun 2013 23:12
jock123:
a large body of literary works going back to mediaeval times

Sadly my knowledge is limited mostly to The Broons and Oor Wullie, with a smattering of Rabbie Burns! I expect most English speakers probably don't realise that they're singing in Scots when they sing Auld Lang Syne at the start of every year.

I can understand why it hasn't been classed as a language since it is so close to English (with a Scottish accent), but I've never really understood the difference between Scots and Scottish English. I also hope that they'll use lots of Scots words that we don't use in English; it'll be a challenge working out what they mean.

And instead of "Great Snakes" what will Tintin say? "Jings!", "Help, ma boab!" or "Crivvens"? ;-)
jock123
Moderator
#6 · Posted: 1 Jul 2013 13:29 · Edited by: jock123
Harrock n roll:
I can understand why it hasn't been classed as a language since it is so close to English (with a Scottish accent), but I've never really understood the difference between Scots and Scottish English.

The defence of it as a language distinct from English is that it was adopted from the invading Angles at approximately the same time as those south of the border (everything is approximate as the U.K. was a mass of kingdoms great and small, and Mercia, of which the fabled Alfred the Great was king covered from Merseyside in modern England, up into what is now Strathclyde in Scotland).
It then developed from the same common source, rather than being taken at a later date from the English.
This is shown by the number of words in Scots still used in other Germanic languages, but lost from English - for example "kirk" for "church" (German - "Kirche", Dutch - "kerk").

Harrock n roll:
instead of "Great Snakes" what will Tintin say? "Jings!", "Help, ma boab!" or "Crivvens"? ;-)

They would indeed do, if they don't go for the more direct "Muckle worms!" ;-)
jock123
Moderator
#7 · Posted: 26 Aug 2013 21:43 · Edited by: jock123
A little update on the Scots version of The Black Island.

The Derk Isle will have Tintin accompanied by his faithful dog Tarrie, and pursued by the bumbling detectives Nesbit and Nisbet!

While I like the Nisbet/ Nesbit thing in principle, it will lead to difficulties with jokes on the names of the detectives which hinge on the difference of one letter...
Mike Merchant
Member
#8 · Posted: 1 Sep 2013 22:22
Good news - it seems to be available now from the publisher. I have heard that the castle on the cover is based on Lochranza in Arran, whether visited by Herge in person I can't remember.
Readers interested in this book may also like the graphic novel of "Kidnapped" in Scots, translated as "Kidnappit" by Matthew Fitt and James Robertson (Itchy Coo, 2006). No problems with the Scots in this.
I agree with #6 - Scots is not a dialect of "Standard" English. They are both dialects. Also agree that "derk" is a bit worrying! We'll soon see...
jock123
Moderator
#9 · Posted: 2 Sep 2013 00:30 · Edited by: jock123
Mike Merchant:
I have heard that the castle on the cover is based on Lochranza in Arran, whether visited by Herge in person I can't remember.

Lochranza has certainly been cited, and seems appropriate, but the fact is it has to be pointed out that other than being a castle on an island, it isn't really the same shape as the castle which Tintin visits; it's a squarish, boxy thing, without the round towers of Hergé's book.
It's true that Bob De Moor (Hergé's assistant and colleague) did make a trip there as part of his researches for the update to the book in the sixties, but while he used the topography and scenery to enhance the book, he took more from Broddick Castle for the re-vamp of the buildings on the island.
In the original version (in black and white) which still served as the template for the castle even after the re-drawing, Hergé seems to have taken a magpie approach to the castle he drew, with several sources, including the curious double topped tower which surmounts the castle from an engraving of Arundel Castle in England (which is still in his files) and possibly using Château Beersel in the Brabant for the stairs and corridors of the interior.
Harrock n roll
Moderator
#10 · Posted: 4 Sep 2013 20:01
Ah received ma book, which arrived quickly direct frae th' publisher.

It's a wee bit streenge tae see th' sassenach polis an' Dr Müller speaking in Scots, but it's stoatin an' guid fin!

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