Tintin Forums

Tintin Forums / Curious about Tintin? (Non-album specific) /

Captain Haddock's and Tintin's relationship

Page  Page 4 of 6:  « Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next » 

Gayboy
Member
#31 · Posted: 27 Dec 2012 22:28
I think using Tintin as a icon for a gaybar is a little bit over the top. I think if Tintin and Haddock were brought out by Herge as a gay couple, I definitely think that their relationship would be extremely private and classy; and, I could see if anyone in the comic were to dare ask Haddock about their relationship... I'm sure Haddock would respond strongly, and it wouldn't be Blisterin Barnacles.

As far as Herge is concerned, I really don't think any of us can really say for sure what went on in that man's head. For all we know he may have had homosexual friends, or it's very possible that he had relations with his Chinese friend thus making him bisexual if that were the truth. Outward society may have been anti-gay, but remember once you get underground the networks were around and extremely complicated. People went to lengths to mask any sign of homosexuality. Most gaymen were married and no one had any clue that they were gay because of fear of public ostracism.

As far as Herge creating a homosexual character, maybe not intentionally but inadvertently. Also remember too that a lot of sexual abuse occured in the Catholic Church. A lot of writers from his time used the Greek model of the Mythos which back in Greek times it was acceptable behavior for an older male to be the mentor of a younger male while being married and usually that 'mentoring' also consisted of sexual relations. Anything homo or bi-sexual would have remained unspoken of--just like a married hetero man doesn't reveal who his mistress was.

The more you analyse it the more that it can go either way really--but of course in the end it's all merely speculation, but really good speculation.

Again, I don't know any of this for a fact I'm just stating my opinion.
mct16
Member
#32 · Posted: 28 Dec 2012 14:05
On the "father & son" side of the debate, I must admit that there is a scene in "Picaros" which I think bears this out: on the page where Haddock announces that they are going to San Theodoros and have it out with Tapioca, Tintin stands there with hands on his hips as if bemused and then, giving Haddock a hard stare, announces "You may be going... I'm staying!"

Of course, he points out the practical reasons, like the whole thing being a trap (which it is) and, when he himself turns up in South America, the desire to get their friends out of jail. On the other hand though, you could say that this is the attitude of a young man trying to break free from his parents: like his statement is really "I'll go in my own time, not when you tell me to, 'Dad'!"

Of course, Tintin was very independent before and after he had met Haddock, but certainly since "Destination Moon" they had travelled the world (and space) practically stuck to each other like glue, so this could be Herge's way of reminding us that they are still free agents (and giving Haddock more focus in what Herge himself quite likely saw as his last adventure).

Other than that, I stand by my view that Tintin and Haddock are just friends who enjoy each other's company. I very much doubt that Herge intended to imply anything sexual, even subconciously. As I indicated in a previous post this was not unusual element in Belgian comics of the time.

Rather, like the other series, I see Tintin's presence at Marlinspike being more practical plot-wise. After all, it would slow down the action if he kept travelling between Marlinspike and his own flat in town as he does in "Crystal Balls". The plot in "Castafiore Emerald" (which I consider one of the weakest) would have been weaker still had we had Tintin investigating from town at a distance or having to commute on an almost daily basis.
Gayboy
Member
#33 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 05:12 · Edited by: Gayboy
JEEP
The relationships that are suggested are deep rooted in homosexuality if you are talking about Greek literature and culture. There wasn't much platonicism, and as a matter of fact homosexual couples were actually smiled upon. So I have to disagree with you on the Greek comment in literature you made. The Mythos is a perfect example of that.
JEEP
Member
#34 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 10:42 · Edited by: JEEP
Gayboy:
JEEP
The relationships that are suggested are deep rooted in homosexuality if you are talking about Greek literature and culture. There wasn't much platonicism, and as a matter of fact homosexual couples were actually smiled upon. So I have to disagree with you on the Greek comment in literature you made. The Mythos is a perfect example of that.

Though there are some anicent Greek texts that circle around the topic of male (and even female) homosexuality, the thought that it should be a general topic is nothing more than a modern afterthought - with no actual base in the texts themselves.

I say this a an archaeologist, educated in the means of viewing a source in the context it was written in - and not, as most do, coloured by our modern world view, highly influenced by the likes of Freud and Marx.

I mean no disrespect, but reading "between the lines" of anicent texts is a dangerous practice, if one is not very vigilant.

But, we are straying an awfully lot from the original topic now. I would say; it must be in order to simply agree to disagree on this matter now :)
Gayboy
Member
#35 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 15:33
JEEP

The idea is not a modern after thought. I don't see what's so dangerous in understanding ancient culture. Afterall Herge studied it in school(ancient literature and philosophy), but I'm sure "in the modern world" they sugar coated the Homosexual stuff.

So yea we can agree to disagree.

I really wonder sometimes if Herge was really writing more for his self than anyone else. He could have written so many more stories.

Your right about one thing, in the end as the previous poster said before me, he or she sees Tintin and Haddock as a father and son, some as just friends, but for me the evidence of behavior despite the times and with the Greek Literature influence that Haddock and Tintin fit the whole Greek male lovers role. I love the fanfiction and art others have made tribute on that idea. So we have Tintin in two universes here... The straight Tintin which the majority of heterosexual people identify with and the lovers Tintin/Haddock which gay folk and a surprising amount of straight people too who think the idea is not far fetched. Fictional characters are wonderful because they can fit the mold of whatever we choose unlike real life people of which who are clearly defined in every dimension.
jock123
Moderator
#36 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 16:42 · Edited by: jock123
Gayboy:
So we have Tintin in two universes here...

I think you are ignoring the possibility that many - perhaps the majority? - don’t think of Tintin and Haddock in sexual terms at all… It’s perfectly possible to read the books and enjoy them without placing any sexual value on the characters.
Gayboy
Member
#37 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 16:50
jock123
I'm sure there are people who think like that, but I'm looking at Tintin in a different aspect that they either choose not to look at or are innocent to it; but I think in todays world especially, kids learn about sex as early as 12! It's crazy, the world has changed and everyone I have spoken to may not see Haddock and Tintin's relationship as sexual but everyone knows eventually romance usually comes into play in a persons life be whatever it is. Those who see Tintin as non-sexual by default assume he will be straight most likely though. My sexual value really comes from reading about Herge more than anything though.
jock123
Moderator
#38 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 17:11 · Edited by: jock123
Gayboy:
I'm looking at Tintin in a different aspect that they either choose not to look at or are innocent to it

No, I can’t agree - that’s to suggest that to say the book contain nothing of note in terms of sexuality isn’t a clear choice, or is a matter of ignoring something. To judge the material non-sexual can be as much a matter of choice and consideration as to put a sexual spin on things, be that heterosexual or homosexual.
Gayboy:
everyone knows eventually romance usually comes into play in a persons life be whatever it is.

But we’re dealing with a construct, not real life, and it’s perfecty possible to filter out all sorts of things which exist in reality when creating a work of, well, any sort, from a painting to a book to whatever. I can’t begin to imagine how one assesses the incidence of romance in the real world, but it’s certainly possible for the author of a piece not to include it in a fiction.
Gayboy:
Those who see Tintin as non-sexual by default assume he will be straight most likely though.

Again, that’s an unfounded assumption, and contradictory at best. If someone considers the books to have zero sexual relevance, they are by default not giving the characters any sexuality. It just doesn’t matter to them.
This isn’t to argue against you have a personal reading of the books in any manner you choose; that is most certainly your perogative. I just don’t think you can extrapolate it as you appear to have, and read more into what those who say the books aren’t sexual intend.
Gayboy
Member
#39 · Posted: 31 Dec 2012 17:25
jock123

I can agree for those who don't see it as sexual in anyway can see it simply as story, my only reservation is no matter how much of the real life constructs one takes out of a story, there will always be that personal experience which everyone will bring something different with them to the story be it sexual or nonsexual... another example would be maybe a child who gets bullied at school may assume as a child Tintin was bullied and perhaps beat up thus why he is so assertive and stands up for his ideals... again, everything is all assumption in the end because Herge did not write in definitive terms history or (romantic) in anyway.

It's the connections that we make and like you said they don't have to be sexual, but of course all of it is undefined. As an uncle with 3 nieces and 2 nephews, I read the Redrackham's treasure to them, they didn't see anything sexual of course. My niece who is thirteen though did make a comment "Haddock cares too much for Tintin" but hey it's all subjective in the end.
robbo
Member
#40 · Posted: 7 Jan 2013 02:02 · Edited by: robbo
I've been reading Tintin for 47 years and have always considered Tintin books to be a-sexual, or to be precise (forgive the pun) have zero sexual content in the subject matter. It is quite clear that Tintin and Captain Haddock sleep in separate rooms both at Marlinspike and when travelling or staying with friends, or at very least in separate beds and that this was Herge's intention. There is never anything said which could be remotely read as sexual.
There is some room for Freudian or psychological reading and interpretation particularly the dream sequence in the desert in Crab with the Golden Claws where Captain Haddock attempts to uncork a bottle with Tintin's head doubling as a cork, Captain Haddock calling out for Mummy, Lazlo Carreidas and Rastapopoulos plunging their childhood memories when under the influence of a truth drug, and Tintin following his dream vision in Tintin in Tibet. But in all these sequences there is nothing that doesn't refer back to the everyday and common themes of Tintin namely Captain Haddock's drink problem and Tintin's strong loyalty and friendship, and good and evil.

mat

Page  Page 4 of 6:  « Previous  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next » 

Please be sure to familiarize yourself with the Forum Posting Guidelines.

Disclaimer: Tintinologist.org assumes no responsibility for any content you post to the forums/web site. Staff reserve the right to remove any submitted content which they deem in breach of Tintinologist.org's Terms of Use. If you spot anything on Tintinologist.org that you think is inappropriate, please alert the moderation team. Sometimes things slip through, but we will always act swiftly to remove unauthorised material.

Reply



  Forgot your password?
Please sign in to post. New here? Sign up!