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Ellipse-Nelvana: General discussion

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tintinsgf
Member
#41 · Posted: 27 Mar 2012 16:05
blisteringbarnacle:
I love the Ellipse-Nelvana series! It was how I was introduced to Tintin. The theme song, the stories everything was just great.

If this series were nonexistent, I'd never know Tintin for... perhaps for good. This is indeed an exaggeration, but at the time my father bought the video for the whole family, Tintin album is such a rarity.

It might be not so faithful to the album, but that's understandable.
skater95
Member
#42 · Posted: 27 Mar 2012 21:40
This is how I was introduced to Tintin as well! My French teacher always played the French version for us in class. We loved it :) One of my favorite moments from the series is in Flight 714 when Krollspell, Carreidas, and Rastapopoulos are all talking incessantly and driving Tintin and Haddock crazy. Suddenly the captain picks up a roll of sticking plaster and looks at Tintin. Tintin slowly nods his head with an evil smile on his face. It cracks me up!
chameleontongue
Member
#43 · Posted: 29 Mar 2012 04:06
here's a review of the complete series on blu-ray

http://www.project-blu.com/review.php?titleid=705
blisteringbarnacle
Member
#44 · Posted: 14 Apr 2012 07:21
Blistring_Barnacles:
Tintin says, "Well, Brussels originally," and punches him. :)

We have the same favourite moment! "Brussels originally!" is the best one-liner in the series!
Magpie
Member
#45 · Posted: 1 May 2012 01:00
Oh my gosh, they're playing the series on Teletoon Retro! I'm seriously so happy about this! :D
Colonel Jorgen
Member
#46 · Posted: 1 May 2012 12:40
chameleontongue:
http://www.project-blu.com/review.php?titleid=705

I completely agree with the review; of course I'm happy the series has been finally released on DVD and Blu-ray, but the first episode of The Secret of the Unicorn is really horrible quality - it hurt my eyes watching it! I find it strange that perhaps the most famous Tintin story has the worst transfer - were there not any better masters available?

The cropped image was annoying and I would have rather they had preserved the original aspect ratio and not a single extra? It certainly is far from the definitive release of this great series, so I hope one day it will get the release it deserves.
Linda UK
Member
#47 · Posted: 15 Jun 2012 02:10
[b][/b]

Although from reading many of the posts in this thread it seems this Tv or dvd series introduced many fans to Tintin, and i'm assuming mainly younger members and fans here, these cartoon adaptions are very weak and far inferior to the wonderful books.

As well as missing the rich detail and complexities of the books, which is after all the magic and wonder of the Tintin Adventures, these condensed and over edited cartoons mix up the continuity and development of the plots and stories.

As for the "political correctness" of the changes and presentation, in most of these cases it completely undermines the messages and depth of the stories.
Many of these differences between the books and the cartoons make no real sense or reason to me either.

For example, why change the African pilgrims and slave-trade plot in Red Sea Sharks to "Arab-looking" economic migrants or refugees!?
Why do all the Black African slaves/servants of Khemed in Land Black Gold and Red Sea Sharks either disappear (edited out completely) or are changed to generic Arab characters!?
What is the purpose in this, if for "political correctness" then it misses the whole point of Herge's moral message and anti-slavery plot, and the world Khemed is set in!?

There are countless other examples, but this one was one of the most obvious and unnecessary changes to me.

The other many annoying, and again confusing and unnecessary, changes include the already mentioned "Skut scene" in Red Sea Sharks, among too many to list without rewatching and writing them all (which would actually be really interesting to see)!

Can other members add their thoughts on scenes and changes, or edits, that spoil the cartoons and dishonor the books and Herge's work, please?
Balthazar
Moderator
#48 · Posted: 15 Jun 2012 12:05
Linda UK:
Can other members add their thoughts on scenes and changes, or edits, that spoil the cartoons and dishonor the books and Herge's work, please?

Hmm. I dislike the Ellipse-Nelvana series as much as you clearly do - for me, it's the reducing of Hergé's artwork to the style and standards of a deeply average TV cartoon that I hate most - but I've mostly resisted butting in on forum theads like this one with my negative opinions.

Clearly, for some people (younger than me!) this series is a fondly remembered part of their childhood and their route to getting into the books as well. The same applies to the even less artistically and narratively faithful Belvision series, which for all it's flaws certainly got a lot of people into the books. (I think we already had one Tintin book in the house before my siblings and I watched Belvision's Crab with the Golden Claws on TV one summer holiday in the 1970s, but it certainly led us to pester my mum to let us buy that book, which got us into buying more over the years.)

For some people, like me, once you get into the books, you come to lose interest in or respect for the inferior TV versions. However, other fans of the books continue to be able to enjoy the TV series alongside the books. Take our veteran moderator Jock123, for instance. There are few people with a more detailed knowledge of the details and subtleties of Hergé's books, yet I know that he's also simultaneously a fan of the Belvision cartoons.

If I was chatting to someone who only knew one of the TV series and didn't know of the books, I might well make the clear case for the books being the "real" Tintin and urge them to read them. But I doubt there are many people who spend any time visiting this website who aren't aware of the books (or who don't quickly become aware of them). So I've tended to mostly resist jumping into the forum threads where fans of either TV series like to chat about how much they like them, to attempt to "convert" people to sharing my dislike of the series!

That's not to say that your idea of listing and analysing the changes from the books in the TV cartoons that irritate you and others wouldn't be interesting. I just wonder if it might work better as a new and separate thread for those interested in adding to it, to avoid the danger of this thread descending into a subjective argument between book purists and TV fans defending a corner of their childhood!

Later self-edit:
Actually, looking back to the early pages of this thread, I see that its starting point was just such the comparative criticism of the TV series that you have in mind, and that it's continued in that vein. Maybe I was mistaking it for another more pro-Ellipse-Nelvana thread that I'm half-remembering. (That's what comes of posting late at night!) Anyway, scrub the advice in my last paragraph above; this thread's probably a perfectly good place for what you're suggesting after all.
Linda UK
Member
#49 · Posted: 15 Jun 2012 19:17
Balthazar

Thankyou Balthazar (Moderator), and i did originally take your points regarding these cartoons having their own fanbase, as do the Belvisions.

I was just logging in to answer your post, and start that very suggested thread topic of "What changes and omissions do you dislike between Ellipse-Nelvana and the book series canon"?

Having just read your own edit footnote to your post, i see we can carry on the topic here.
I must make clear to that i do own and occasionally watch the Ellipse-Nelvana dvd's, as well as the boxset films (Calculus Affair, Temple of The Sun, Lake of Sharks), but just wanted to open-up the topic of unnecessary or annoying changes, omissions, editing, oddities and questions, and political correctness issues.

When i first bought these cartoons as videos back in the very early 1990's, i had at first assumed i was buying the Belvision series that i remember fondly from childhood in the 1970's on UK television in the school holidays!
So i do understand the nostalgia factor of both Ellipse-Nelvana and Belvision to the inner-child in many of us!

Having said this, i take up and share your earlier point that although understanding a love or nostalgia for these Tintin memories, i too knew the books before seeing the earlier Belvision cartoons, and certainly always got far more pleasure and delight from my growing Tintin book collection, even as a child of the 70's with all the confusion and awareness of the mixed-up chronology order of release!

So to open-up any potential discussion and listings of the various Ellipse-Nelvana changes and omission edits from the book canon series, my main thoughts are as in my previous post on this subject - the Khemed books and the slavery plot, and ethnic changes from Africans to Arabs, the omission of slavery and Mecca pilgrimage, these themed changes throughout Red Sea Sharks and Land Black Gold.

My other annoyance that immediately comes to mind is the "Skut scene" on being known and recognised by Tintin (Red Sea Sharks).
I'm sure others may have or know many more than i could name or remember?
jock123
Moderator
#50 · Posted: 15 Jun 2012 21:15
Balthazar:
I know that he's also simultaneously a fan of the Belvision cartoons.

Yup! And the Ellipse-Nelvana series too! And the live action films! And the Young Vic stage show.

All have been enjoyable, and all without changing one iota of the enjoyment I get from the books.

To go on to the broader questions being raised, I think the first thing that has to be discussed is this notion that changes were made "unnecessarily"; it seems to me to be discourteous to those involved to assume that changes were just handed down willy-nilly – I'd counter and say that they probably had a reason for every change that was made.

They had budget restrictions, deadlines, technical limitations and the difficult task of rendering Hergé's drawings in motion with as much fidelity as they could. Add to that what broadcast regulations will allow you to show, especially to children, and the choices they made seem reasonable to me. It’s accepted that books in their way are selective - one has to actively participate in the reading of a book; TV on the other hand has to be suitable for those who encounter it in all sorts of ways, willingly or unwillingly (from in their own home to on the screen in a shop window or on the wall in a café).

These are adaptations, not verbatim transcriptions, and work in a different way to the books.

Hergé was working over decades, and could make (by comparison to TV cartoons) lavish use of variety. Animators have to work to fixed model sheets, and avoid making mistakes when drawinsgs which have to be shot by the camera-person next to each other might be drawn by people miles appart, or not even in the same country. So Tintin wears his blue jumper, plus-fours, lace-up shoes and white socks on every practical occasion, not his yellow shirt, black tie and socks, brown jeans or his loafers, because the cels will be rendered more accurately, and possibly used in more than one episode to reduce expense and time.

I think the Skut point has been discussed before, but the practical (and therefore not really unneccessary) streamlining of things like when a character is introduced is to make it easier for the broadcaster to keep shows on in rotation; a viewer can enter the "loop" at more and more points the fewer and fewer "mile-stone" events that occur. Some are unavoidable, others are fairly trivial.

There's no critical plot or character advantage in having Skut introduced and then re-introduced; nothing really hangs on it. So it helps the flow of the series if you just ignore the problem, and let any viewer come across him in whatever order they encounter the episode.

Further, it allows for episodes to be used as and when needed by a broadcaster (if another programme or event has to be cancelled, and they need filler material), without worrying unduly about continuity.

Likewise, Red Sea Sharks, although not held up to the scrutiny of Congo perhaps, has had a very negative response from many communities and regions of the world, where the depiction of the pilgrims is seen as both racially offensive and paternalistic, added to which the original French had an out-dated use of language, which combined to make the group appear overly simple minded.

Given the choice of dropping the story entirely (which was a possibility), or re-jigging the action to remove the problem elements (much as Hergé did when he changed Palestine to Khemed, etc.), then I think the solution was effective.

One final point - I'd politely disagree with Balthazar about returning this thread to a portmanteau of points. I'm not sure what purpose could possibly be served in just creating a list of changes or "mistakes", but should such a thing be needed, it would be better served by an article.

Experience shows that – just as for the books – discussion is by far easier when it's focused on a single story or point. Lumping every "problem" into one thread is neither really a general discussion, nor easy to follow, and risks repeating things which have already been covered somewhere on a previous page.

So I'd counsel that, as for albums, if there is a specific issue in a story, it gets dealt with in an episode/ topic specific manner (labelled with the “Ellipse-Nelvana” tag in the title).

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