Tintin Forums

I'd rather it be the Catholic one as I'm much more familiar than the British one. Problem is with Speilberg recasting Tintin as English, it's not gonna do much to help fans realise he's Belgian. It took me a while to figure out what Tintin meant in the Black Island when he said they'll go to "gaol".

You mean you haven't read the incredibly rare 1950s Australian release?

Captain: "It means, mate, that according to your calculations we're all standing in St James's Church in Sydney!" Tintin: "Strewth!"

Haha! That was truly awful!

sliat_1981, "gaol" is the Australian spelling for "jail" = the place where criminals spend their sentence. You truly didn't know this?

Actually the Australian dictonary is now officially Jail, not Gaol. It was changed. Hardly anyone uses it here in print (newspapers, magazines, media, etc). Only places that still uses it are the old fashinoed places ( Old Melbourne Gaol, etc). The Australian spelling is actually Jail, not Gaol
Here's a reference to proove it's Jail, not Gaol he Macquarie Dictionary", Third Edition. The Macquarie Library Pty Ltd, 1997, p. 1139 and pp. 1706–1707.

Moderator Note: Two consecutive posts combined - please avoid posting two in a row where possible; it’s best to edit your message instead.

The Tintinologist Team

Yes, and hardly anyone uses it in Britain either, which sort of puts both countries in the same boat, doesn't it?


No, it's something which has changed, not been changed...

Unlike French in France, for example, which has an official national committee – L'Académie française – which decides on matters of vocabulary and grammar and language purity, neither Australian nor British English has a governing body; instead lexicographers for academic bodies like universities, plus publishers of dictionaries (which in the case of the Oxford English Dictionary [OED] amounts to the same thing) sample texts and publications over the years, and reflect the spelling in use at the time.

Thus "gaol" has been a spelling in use in both countries, in roughly the same time period.

Jail was a variant introduced in America (which did try for State-backed spelling reform), which has become adopted over time in both the U.K. and Australia, and both may be found in dictionaries in both countries (and no, not all will have both); "gaol" may be noted as old-fashioned or archaic, but it's not like it can't be used in either.

It's not a question of it being "official", as there is nothing to make it such, especially when you can still find it spelled both ways in both countries to this day.

Had Harrock's mythical rare 1950's edition been published in Melbourne in 1958, it would as likely as not used "gaol"; if the book were to be first translated in London today, it would in all probability say "jail".

But enough of the lexicography – this is way off topic, and does not answer the question of the original poster. Back on track please, chaps!

I just took a look at the 1952 Casterman edition of the Red Rackham's Treasure, which was the first English edition. In that the Captain says "Gentlemen, according to your calculations we are now sailing into St Paul's Cathedral in London".

In other words, the very first English-language edition, released by a Belgian publisher and likely to have been approved by Hergé, had already transposed the church to England.

This is significant, I think, since it shows that much of the anglicisation had already been established well before the first Methuen releases.

The English language Castermans were also the first to christen the Thom(p)sons, and they named the professor Archibald Blunderbuss (Calculus) and gave us Puckeridge Castle (for Marlinspike or Moulinsart). I think it's obvious these are meant to be English names, thus giving the book an English setting.

Therefore, it wasn't primarily the English publishers idea to re-establish the locations or character nationalities, but Casterman's and most probably Hergé's too.

In print it is NEVER spelled as Gaol anymore here, (I should know).

I can't speak for England as I have only been there twice. Only places that still use it are old places that were named when Australia did anything the Britain did (eg Old Melbourne Gaol, Perth Gaol and simply haven't been renamed).

That would be like saying Australia uses the word "lorry" for truck (which is most certainly does not).

I'm not certain what you intend by this – apart from the fact that you are disagreeing with Titinrulz (who is in Australia too), and that there is no way to measure whether anybody anywhere is spelling a word in any given way without calling in the teams of lexicographers who write dictionaries, what is the point you are trying to make, and is it relevant to the original poster's question?


"Gaol" is an old way of spelling the word in both Britain and Australia, and both countries now generally use the "American" spelling (although, given it's currency round the world, it would be even better to say that it is just the modern English spelling of the word formerly spelt "gaol").


No it isn't, only you are saying that.

You, an Australian, brought up the word "gaol" (off topic) as a word you didn't know when you read Black Island; you now know it is an alternate spelling of what is now more commonly written as "jail".

Somewhere along the line you took the position that this was an example of British English somehow being "forced" on an Australian audience (which appears to be your agenda), rather than an example of a spelling which, while once the preferred spelling in both varieties of English, is rarely used in either country these days.

All this really demonstrates is that reading Tintin has increased your vocabulary; both you and Tintinrulz have given examples of it still being used in Australia, which is interesting, and probably equally strange if not even more so to British readers.

Personally, I can't think of anywhere it is still used in Britain (even in the names of buildings) outside of Oscar Wilde's poem The Ballad of Reading Gaol (in which he was imprisoned) – and even the actual "Reading Gaol" was renamed HM Prison Reading many years ago!

[Belated Update: Just discovered that HM Prison Stafford is in Gaol Road (there is also an associated Gaol Mews).]

Just throwing out further words for discussion about whether the are used in Australia or Britain doesn't relate to the subject of the thread, so it looks like you are trying to fan the embers of an argument that might be seen as flame-baiting, were it to go further.

Please, as requested above, keep this thread on topic.

I'm quoting you from an earlier thread, but that choice of the word "urgh "strikes me as oddly emotional in the context of a discussion of translation choices, as does your earlier assumption that the British publishers were acting out of some kind of Imperial arrogance.

If you're simply arguing that in this more internationally aware century it may be time, in the interests of authenticity, to restore the Sir Francis Haddock's French naval flag and text references in the English translations, and restore Marlinspike Hall's somewhere-outside-Brussels location by removing that "England" specification on the addressed envelope Tintin finds, then I'd agree there's a case to be argued. I've argued it myself, politely, with Jock elsewhere on these forums, and personally can see both sides of the argument. Feel free to find the relevant forum threads, so that this thread doesn't go any further off topic!

But if you're actually fighting some general, personal battle against all things British, then I think Methuen and the translators Michael Turner and Leslie Lonsdale-Cooper would be an odd choice of bogey-man, and Hergé an odd choice of author in need of defence from their supposed imperial machinations.

There's nothing in Methuen's history to suggest it was a bastion of British Imperialism. On the contrary, it was the translators' opposition to colonial racism, decades before political correctness became fashionable, that prevented them from wanting to translate or publish Tintin in the Congo, at a time when many other countries were.

And Hergé, by all accounts, became a real Anglophile/Britophile in post-war years, stating that he felt more at home in London than in Paris, and enjoying a close working relationship and warm friendship with his British translators, and wholeheartedly approving their translation approach. And, as Harrock points out in his interesting post above, Hergé apparently approved the decision to Anglicise locations and references in the books not only in the Methuen translations but in the earlier Casterman ones too.

Hergé's work also surely shows a general distain for people stoking up international tensions where none need exist, and that's very much the spirit in which these forums are conducted. We've members from all over the world, and since none of us are responsible for the real or imagined sins of our publishers, governments or spelling authorities, past or present, it's best to maintain the excellent tone of friendly international respect and to avoid interesting debates about translation differences in church locations becoming platforms for nationalistic bone-picking.

Many thanks!

Hi, newbie here ! But an avid French tintinophile for 35 years.
Just for contribution's sake, I just want to say that the same thing happened to the French editions of Disney's comics: all the characters (except the big stars like Mickey, Minnie, Donald and Daisy) and locations names have been changed for names that are easier to pronounce and understand by young French readers. For example Goofy became Dingo, Scrooge McDuck became Oncle Picsou, Duckburg became Donaldville, etc. These are in both cases comics that are targeted for a young readership, children who only speak their native language and only know some parts of their country of origin. So it's really no problem.
My issue with Spielberg's film is that it should have been shot in French with French speaking actors. I could have seen Jean Réno as Captain Haddock and Lorant Deutsch as Tintin. After there's Gad Elmaleh who is a French-speaking Moroccan who lives between France and Canada. That's the only "heresy" I regret, but altogether the film will bring the new generation to Hergé's work and it's a good thing.