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Information: "Au Pays de L'Or Liquide" artwork, La Voix de L'Ouest

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TMB
Member
#1 · Posted: 28 Oct 2010 14:44
Does anyone know whether Hergé himself worked on the artwork for this in 1945 or was it, as the Wikipedia article implies, re-done by anonymous French editors.

I've just woken up to the fact that I have what looks like one of the original drawings for this serialisation - six frames on a piece of watermarked paper a little larger than A4 labelled in pencil in distinctively French/European script "Tintin et Milou au Pays de L'Or Liquide C.V.3. aout 1945".

Might be more useful to me sold and paying the children's tuition fees than on my wall so, if it is worth mega-money, I would like to know how best to realise it. (I am regrettbly not as altruistic as the other poster who donated proceeds from his signed book to his local church charity.)
jock123
Moderator
#2 · Posted: 29 Oct 2010 16:16
It isn't possible to say exactly what you have - it could be anything from sketches in Hergé's own hand, to a printer's proof from a plate, or even a tracing which someone else did - without a bit more detail, or a link to a picture.

Even then, it could be that you have something beyond the experience of the members here, at which point you might want to approach Moulinsart, who are now offering periodic access to an authentication panel, who might have the expertise to tell you what it is you have. If you have it authenticated, and it is by Hergé, or has some sort of official status, I'd recommend that you entered it into a specialist sale, not put it on eBay, because you will undoubtedly get better access to serious buyers with money.

If it is genuinely old, and has a good provenance, there's a good chance that it is valuable even if not by Hergé, just because it is unusual - but perhaps not to the extent of paying your children through university!
TMB
Member
#3 · Posted: 31 Oct 2010 16:56
Thanks for this. I will approach Moulinsart as you suggest and, if it is valuable enough to be worth selling (and a worry to keep) I certainly wouldn't consider e-bay, but I appreciate your advising against it. It seems I have missed out three major Tintin auctions in the last six months but there will presumably be others.

I'll share with you here the differences between these frames and the 1963 artwork in my copy of "Land of Black Gold" as they're quite interesting for those who enjoy such detail. (Are you sitting comfortably?...) It is 6 frames from page 3 of the book - from Tintin reading the newspaper to him and the Thom(p)sons looking out of the window at the smoking car in the street.

In all of them Tintin is wearing not a plain round-neck pullover with shirt collar just showing but a v-neck sleeveless pullover with shirt (sleeves rolled up as in 1963) and tie. Presumably too impossibly old-fashioned for the post-war era.

The first frame is him reading a newspaper - but not full of consternation at the news of potential outbreak of war, just sitting normally and interrupted by a knock on the door, "Toc Toc Toc" not a doorbell, and saying "Entrez!". It is also "Quelque heures plus tard" rather than "next morning" (which makes more sense of the Thom(p)sons saying something has "just" happened).

The frames of the telephone conversation with Captain Haddock are missing - and I read in the Wikipedia article that Captain Haddock was an introduction into this story when it was picked up again by Herge after the gap occasioned by the War. Gives rise to what in a film would be a continuity error. As the frames run in the 1963 artwork - Tintin is reading a newspaper - he answers the phone holding the receiver with his left hand - he puts the receiver down with his right hand as the doorbell rings - he opens door and/or greets the Thom(p)sons having stopped to pick up the newspaper again!!

In this frame the door has slightly different panelling and door furniture but the main change is that the hall background is just floor and wall in blocks - no striped carpet or dado level split in the hallway. The exchange - in case there is a difference in the text as well (I only have an English version) is "Bonjour!" and "Bonjour!...Quelles nouvelles?"

Next frame no difference in the drawing - although interestingly, looking at it very carefully, there is a pencilled in outline of Tintin a little bit further away from the Thom(p)sons, but the inked in final drawing is the same configuration as 1963. "Quelles nouvelles?...Il vient de nous arriver une bizarre aventure!" "Je dirais meme plus! Je..c'est une aventure...une aventure..heuh...bizarre!..." "Ah?...Recontez-moi cela!...Mais d'abord, asseyez-vous..."

Next one, no difference "Eh bien, voila! Nous roullions tranquillement, (nous venions de prendre de l'essense) lorsque, tout a coup, notre moteur fait...."

"BOUM" The background is simpler - no depiction of the chairs. And the "BOUM" (presumably also a sound effect that is redrawn in the modern different language editions) has straight edges rather than crinkly ones. The "B" is slightly larger than the other letters and the third and final downstroke of the "M" was originally extended, possibly to balance it, but then this painted out with whatever was the then equivalent of tippex.

Next frame - the final one of the six - is interestingly more detailed than the 1963 version (whereas the others have been simpler). It includes the image of Tintin and the Thom(p)sons looking out of the window - not just off-screen, as it were - and much more street background. There are just two whisps of smoke rather than billowing clouds and you can see the detatched house next to the one where Tintin has a room, also with people looking out of the window, and the hedges and front gates of both buildings, a cross street and the houses there. The style of the car is also more old-fashioned. For the text, one of the Thom(p)sons is going "?" (not in the 1963 version) and the other "Ah ca!... C'est une epidemie!..."

Enjoy...
mct16
Member
#4 · Posted: 31 Oct 2010 21:42
Great description. Thanks. It's always interesting to know the differences between the various publications and how they compare.

A few years ago they published two books which presented the original newspaper editions of the "Secret of the Unicorn" and "Red Rackham's Treasure" along with commentary on how they varied from the subsequent books editions - much like you have done.

I really wish that they would do the same for other stories. I suppose that it is a matter of patience.
MrCutts
Member
#5 · Posted: 4 Nov 2010 16:12
mct16:
A few years ago they published two books which presented the original newspaper editions of the "Secret of the Unicorn" and "Red Rackham's Treasure" along with commentary on how they varied from the subsequent books editions - much like you have done.

I really wish that they would do the same for other stories. I suppose that it is a matter of patience.

In 1988 Casterman published 'Le temple du soleil, version originale' with a forward by Benoit Peeters. There was a reprint of this book later but without the forward.

The book consists of reprints of the original version of the Prisoners of the Sun (English title) before it was edited for the 62 page book. The original appeared in the newspaper Le Soir. From what I can gather the story appeared in a 16 page pull out all in full colour.

There are quite a few panels that didn't make the 62 page book and there are some deleted scenes. For example, after Haddock, Tintin and Zorrino enter the cave through the waterfall Haddock discovers some gold nuggets and trys to get as many pieces of gold as he can in his pockets.

A very interesting book if you can find one.
TMB
Member
#6 · Posted: 5 Nov 2010 11:34
Whoops. I should not have allowed the Euro signs to start flicking over in my eyes like some crazy character out of a cartoon.

I have now actually taken the piece out of the frame - where it was so well secured I had not cared to do so before - and it is a print on semi-gloss paper with, on the back of it, another frame of Tintin (not from the same story) standing in a hallway looking up a staircase. (Again the use of correcting fluid clearly visible. Nice insight into how they were done and the corners that could be cut.) I did not realise that reproductions could be that good - watermark, smear of red ink, thick pencil writing and all - but that it what it is and I am feeling a right idiot.

Still, the whole charade has been very interesting, I would not have looked into the story differences in such detail otherwise nor found your website. So I have enjoyed myself.
mct16
Member
#7 · Posted: 6 Nov 2010 01:01
If I understand this, you're saying that someone took two instances of Tintin and printed them on either side of a sheet of paper: a copy of some obscure newspaper edition and panel from another story. Seems a bit odd. Have you any idea of the history behind this poster?

TMB:
another frame of Tintin (not from the same story) standing in a hallway looking up a staircase

You wouldn't happen to know which story?
TMB
Member
#8 · Posted: 6 Nov 2010 13:10
The very courteous gentleman at one of the auction houses said he thought the original plate was in the possession of the Fondation Herge so it may be as Jock suggested printers' proofs for a catlogue or something they or their predecessors were producing back in the 1980s or 90s. It is the sort of thing that printers do when checking how a reproduction goes, to run off copies on both sides of a large sheet of paper.

Wary of copyright issues on this site, but if it was OK to do so I could up-load the photos into flickr and publicise the link. They do provide a very interesting insight into Herge's working methods, with original layout in pencil and then inked in (sometimes corrected and re-inked). With the picture of him in the stairway, the straight lines of floor and wall are drawn in complete in pencil, just not inked where the figure is in front of them but still faintly visible.

And sorry, not familiar enough with the Tintin oeuvre to know which story.
jock123
Moderator
#9 · Posted: 6 Nov 2010 15:11
TMB:
Wary of copyright issues on this site, but if it was OK to do so

I would think, although the other mods may see it differently, that if you had two or three decent pics of the piece, and were displaying them for information and appraisal of that piece, that that would constitute fair use; it is after all to see what you have and own, and identify it, as it is to see the actual content of it - you’re prepared to state that the physical object is your property, you don’t make any claim to rights in the image that that object shows.
TMB
Member
#10 · Posted: 6 Nov 2010 16:11
Thanks for these thoughts...

Photographs uploaded to flickr. Anyone interested can go there and search against the tag "Tintin" for the most recent uploads. If there are difficulties finding them they are in a photostream in the name of Mary Palmer.

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