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Ellipse-Nelvana: General discussion

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#51 · Posted: 17 Jun 2012 17:09 · Edited by: Balthazar
One final point - I'd politely disagree with Balthazar about returning this thread to a portmanteau of points. I'm not sure what purpose could possibly be served in just creating a list of changes or "mistakes", but should such a thing be needed, it would be better served by an article.

Experience shows that – just as for the books – discussion is by far easier when it's focused on a single story or point. Lumping every "problem" into one thread is neither really a general discussion, nor easy to follow, and risks repeating things which have already been covered somewhere on a previous page.

So I'd counsel that, as for albums, if there is a specific issue in a story, it gets dealt with in an episode/ topic specific manner (labelled with the “Ellipse-Nelvana” tag in the title).

Yep, good point, and I'm happy to modify my moderator's advice to tally with yours. Sorry for the contradictions, Linda!

There's no critical plot or character advantage in having Skut introduced and then re-introduced; nothing really hangs on it. So it helps the flow of the series if you just ignore the problem, and let any viewer come across him in whatever order they encounter the episode.

It does rather wreck everything subtle that Hergé was trying to do with Skut's character development, though. To avoid repeating what's already been discussed in that thread you reminded us of, see the point that I and others made there.
#52 · Posted: 18 Jun 2012 00:28 · Edited by: mct16
the practical (and therefore not really unneccessary) streamlining of things like when a character is introduced is to make it easier for the broadcaster to keep shows on in rotation; a viewer can enter the "loop" at more and more points the fewer and fewer "mile-stone" events that occur. Some are unavoidable, others are fairly trivial. Further, it allows for episodes to be used as and when needed by a broadcaster (if another programme or event has to be cancelled, and they need filler material), without worrying unduly about continuity.

Is Calculus an old acquaintance when he meets Tintin and Haddock in "Treasure"? What about Muller in "Black Island" or "Black Gold"? or any of the other characters for that matter? In the TV version of "Cigars" and "Lotus", are Tintin and Rastapopoulos friends before becoming enemies?

Many cartoons series have supporting characters meeting the heroes for the first time in one episode and then turning up in another totally unconnected one. The suggestion that they should all be acquainted from before the series does not really hold.
#53 · Posted: 18 Jun 2012 10:36 · Edited by: jock123
The suggestion that they should all be acquainted from before the series does not really hold.

I’ve not suggested that, you have.

What I have said is that if you have a chance to iron out a bump in the continuity, and it doesn’t affect the story you are telling, it’s expedient to remove it. I’m not just making this up, this is how scripting an adaptation like this actually works in the real world.

Calculus’s introduction in Red Rackham as first an irritant to Tintin and Haddock, then a stow-away was obviously an appealing enough plot-point to render his introduction worth keeping. He’s also in enough stories that he is someone with whom a viewer will quickly become familiar, not just a figure who pops in and out of a couple of episodes, causing head-scratching (“Have we seen him before? Where? When?”).

Skut on the other hand is a very minor character (albeit a popular one with some fans), and in bringing him to the screen losing his entry-point to the cycle makes sense, as it covers far more bases: you can watch the stories in any order; the viewer is free to think that the episode they first see him in is his first appearance, if they so wish, and it removes any requirement to actually know that you have seen him before if you have forgotten by the time you’ve actually seen both episodes.

As Balthazar points out, he does have a bit of a “character-arc” in his appearances in the books, and there is nothing to say that it couldn’t have been approached differently in the adaptation; however, that’s not to say it would have been handled better, or improved things: it might have ended up rushed, or too cramped to be effective, or if emphasised, it might have spoiled some other aspect of pacing or structure.

Many films and TV shows (both original and adaptations) lose fantastic scenes and great performances because when looked at dispassionately they don’t fit into the picture as a whole.

It happens to anyone and everyone: have a look at Olivier’s film of Hamlet some time, and wait for Rozencrantz and Guildenstern to arrive - because they won’t…
However Tom Stoppard thought them so important that he wrote a play which expands their part to be the focus of the action, with the rest of Hamlet taking place in the back-ground…
#54 · Posted: 18 Jun 2012 12:35
I'm not arguing that scriptwriters often take liberties with the source material (the recent "Tintin" film being the prime example) but there are liberties and liberties.

In the "Red Sea Sharks" book, the fact that Skut is a recent acquaintance — and a man who tried to kill them — does add a layer of tension to Tintin and Haddock's predicament: lost at sea with a thug who could double-cross them at any moment (as Haddock feels about Wolff after Jorgen's death in "Moon" or Krollspell after he has been untied in "Flight 714") as well as adding to his redemption when he gets beaten up in the radio room by Alan and his men because he tried to help Haddock and Tintin.

The fact that the TV version makes him an old acquaintance pretty much nullifies these elements: if Skut has known that Tintin and Haddock were on the boat then he may not have fired at it in the first place.

The mix-up appears to have been caused by the fact that "Flight 714" was made for the end of season 2 and "Red Sea Sharks" for the beginning of season 3. Yet another example of chronology being mixed up (and the valiant Jock123 defending the adaptors from the temperamental MCT16's wrath and fury).
#55 · Posted: 19 Jun 2012 07:21
After reading all this great discussion on here,When you look at this series for what it is.I would say it is the greatest animated TV series in history.I have been watching it on a huge 1080p HD TV the Blu Ray is fantastic.
#56 · Posted: 19 Jun 2012 13:38 · Edited by: Tintinrulz
I'm sick of people crapping all over the series but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the animated TV series is the best ever. It's pretty good, although naturally the original books are much better.
#57 · Posted: 20 Jun 2012 06:42
but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the animated TV series is the best ever.

In your opinion what is the best animated tv series of all time?.
#58 · Posted: 21 Jun 2012 14:20
I've been watching Tintin on Blu Ray recently, and as someone who hasn't read the books - am I missing out on much?

As in, are the books significantly extended versions of the cartoons or have only relatively minor aspects been omitted?
Curious as to whether or not the books are worth getting (beyond those that aren't included in this series, i.e. Soviets etc)
#59 · Posted: 22 Jun 2012 07:54 · Edited by: Tintinrulz
In your opinion what is the best animated tv series of all time?

Well, Batman: The Animated Series from the early 90's was pretty magnificent. Animaniacs is up there with the best too.
Colonel Jorgen
#60 · Posted: 23 Jun 2012 08:43
I've been watching Tintin on Blu Ray recently, and as someone who hasn't read the books - am I missing out on much?

Yes - you should get the books! The animations TV series, while very good, does end up changing a lot; although it does vary. Tintin in America, The Shooting Star, The Broken Ear and The Calculus Affair are in my opinion, the worst adaptations in the way they cut away most of the interesting material. However, it doesn't stop there, alas! The political satire present in the majority of the books has been mostly completely removed, as well as many subsidiary characters and existing characters have had aspects about them changed as well. Even better, you get to enjoy Herge's brilliant are as well! So (in my very biased opinion!) I heartily recommend buying the books. Do it now!

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